The Shocking Secrets of MSG's Surveillance Machine: Noah Shachtman on Knicks' Owner James Dolan

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AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now! , democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman.

Basketball fans will have their eyes on New York’s Madison Square Garden tonight, where Game 4 of the NBA Finals between the New York Knicks and the San Antonio Spurs will take place. President Trump’s presence at Game 3 on Monday night brought attention to the billionaire owner of Madison Square Garden and the New York Knicks, James Dolan, who invited President Trump to watch the game from his box. This was Trump speaking to reporters last week about the Knicks and Dolan.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP : Well, I’ve been a Knick fan for a long time, and I’m also a Jim Dolan fan. He’s a nice guy, OK? He’s been a long time wanting to win, and he’s — he’s a competitive guy. And he’s got a team that’s amazing. … The answer is yes. He’s invited me. I’m going.

AMY GOODMAN : Well, tonight, the world’s attention might be on Madison Square Garden, but owner James Dolan will also be likely paying attention to everyone who’s coming to the stadium, specifically watching them. For years the stadium has been notorious for using facial recognition technology to monitor everyone entering the venue. A few years ago, Dolan defended his use of facial recognition technology at Madison Square Garden, speaking to Fox 5 New York’s Good Day New York .

JAMES DOLAN : First off, it’s funny what people think about facial recognition, right? The — when you — you know, you get caught on a camera, which is basically anytime you go in the public, you’re on camera, right? I mean, you walk down the street, believe me, you’re on the camera. Like, you’re on 10 cameras. What facial recognition does is looks at — looks at your — you know, recognizes your face and says, “Are you” — right? — you know, “someone who’s on this list?” Right? So, if you’re a terrorist — right? — it will say, “That’s a terrorist.” Right? And then, you know, appropriate action can be taken. It’s very, very useful for security. In fact, Madison Square Garden, I believe, is the most secure venue in the country.

AMY GOODMAN : Well, a detailed investigation by Wired magazine reveals just how extensive the surveillance machine that Dolan has set up at Madison Square Garden. It’s called “The Shocking Secrets of Madison Square Garden’s Surveillance Machine,” by Noah Shachtman and Robert Silverman. Noah Shachtman’s latest piece is headlined “A New York Cop Got Injured at a Boxing Match. Now Madison Square Garden Is Banning His Lawyer.”

For more, we’re joined by _Wired_’s contributing editor, Noah Shachtman.

Thanks so much for being with us.

NOAH SHACHTMAN : Great to be here.

AMY GOODMAN : So, talk about this surveillance machine, as James Dolan, the Trump ally, who invited Trump to sit with him in his box for Game 3 — talk about him referring to tracking terrorists.

NOAH SHACHTMAN : Yeah, so, look, every sports venue is going to have security measures, of course. And many of those may involve facial recognition. But no venue in the country deploys facial recognition so widely and so — and weaponizes it in the way that James Dolan does. He uses facial recognition not just to keep suspected troublemakers out, but, more importantly, he has all sorts of enemies lists. And those enemies include people that he might be in legal disputes with, people that might have tweeted mean stuff at him. And in our story for Wired , maybe the most shocking thing was there is a trans woman who, for the crime of being trans, was surveilled by James Dolan’s spy machine, second by second, minute by minute, even when she went into the bathroom, when she came out, because James Dolan didn’t want her close to the team.

AMY GOODMAN : How did he know about her?

NOAH SHACHTMAN : This was a person — we’re calling her, for her own privacy, Nina Richards. And this is a person that was a familiar face at Madison Square Garden, that knew many of the staff, that knew many of the players, season ticket holder, and had been around the team. And we got a hold of a surveillance report from Pride Night a couple years ago, where this woman wanted to enjoy the game and had pretty decent seats and, you know, got a drink, like everybody else, and got some hot dogs, like everybody else, and even got escorted to an even better seat, which does happen from time to time if you hang around the Garden. And second by second, every single place she went, she was surveilled. And that was captured in a detailed report that we obtained.

AMY GOODMAN : What did she do about this?

NOAH SHACHTMAN : Well, that part we don’t know entirely. We know there was some kind of legal dispute, and we know that she was eventually banned from the Garden and is no longer allowed to be there. So, it’s one of many outcomes that happens with Dolan’s spy machine. Some people are banned. Some people are merely put on a watchlist and surveilled. Some people are given warnings.

But, to me, the more shocking thing is…